Summon's power buff mechanic

[jjppof]

Edited things suggested by Teawater
Just to confirm if It's right.

  Summon's power buff lasts till the end of the battle, unless something like break is casted.

  Summon's first cast grants:
+10 power - 1 djinn
+30 power - 2 djinns
+60 power - 3 djinns
+100 power - 4 djinns or more

  If the same summon caster casts other type of summon but it is or contains the same element of the before summon, the new power grant will stack and it shall be (It only will be granted if the previous summon recquire less djinns of the same element than the second summon):
+0 power - 1 djinn
+20 power - 2 djinns
+50 power - 3 djinns
+90 power - 4 djinns or more

  After casting twice summons that contains the same element, the third onward will have null power buff.

  If a second summon casted has the same or less djinns counts of the element in question, the power buff won't be granted. A new power buff only will be granted with a stronger summon.

  Examples (always the same char):
     Ex. 1
     Turn 1) Casted Venus > + 10 venus power
     Turn 2) Casted Haures >  + 50 venus power (instead of 60), + 30 mars power (normal, first mars cast)
     Turn 3) Casted Judgment > no power buff

     Ex. 2
     Turn 1) Cated Venus > + 10 venus power
     Turn 2) Casted Venus > no power buff
     Turn 3) Casted Ramses > + 20 venus power
     Turn 4) Casted Charon > +0 venus power, +30 jupiter power

     Ex. 3
     Turn 1) Cated Cybele > + 60 venus power
     Turn 2) Casted Ramses > no power buff
     Turn 3) Casted Judment > + 90 venus power
     Turn 4) Casted Charon > +0 venus power, +30 jupiter power

I'd like to Know if this is right.

[Thunder-squall]

I checked other sources, but didn't find exactly what you were looking for
     http://www.gamefaqs.com/gba/561356-golden-sun-the-lost-age/faqs
     http://www.gamefaqs.com/gba/468548-golden-sun/faqs

So whenever you figure this out, it'd be great if you contributed to gamefaqs.

According to the wiki

Spoiler for Hiden:

http://goldensunwiki.net/Summon
After a successful summon, the elemental power of the summoner will be increased by a specified amount. The amount of increase depends on the number and element of the Djinn used to fuel the summon. Typically, using 1 Djinn will increase the matching Elemental Power by 10. Likewise, 2 Djinn result in a 30 point increase, 3 Djinn result in a 60 point increase, and 4 or more result in a 100 point increase. However, this increase is only given the first time a summoner uses the summon in a particular battle, barring the summoner being targeted by Break.

[Rolina]

We may want to test this ourselves to double check.  That second part threw me off, but my memory isn't good enough to confirm or deny it, and my playstyle was never summon-heavy so I don't even have that going for me.  I'll test it as I'm able, though.

[Teawater]

080AD930 = Code reference (This is inside the function used for calculating all stats.)
The equation for the first bit is (x^2 + x) * 5, where x is the number of djinn.

(x * x + x) * 5

(1 * 1 + 1) * 5 = 10
(2 * 2 + 2) * 5 = 30
(3 * 3 + 3) * 5 = 60
(4 * 4 + 4) * 5 = 100

Relevant RAM: Tested with Isaac (in TLA) is at 0200064C (4 bytes) = Which contains the number of djinn used in the summon. ; These values might not be set in "Calculate all stats" function? I'll take a look soon, though.)

I'll still need to find out how the second bit works in the code, I guess. (Edit: Can someone confirm it without using a one element djinn for the first summon use?)

[Teawater]

Update! (Sorry, I would have edited my post again, but someone (topic creator) already saw it. Don't blame me much, since I rarely double post, anyhow.)

If the same summon caster casts other type of summon but it is or has the same element of the before summon, the new power grant shall be:
+0 power - 1 djinn
+20 power - 2 djinns
+50 power - 3 djinns
+90 power - 4 djinns or more

I think this is wrong. I theorize you came up with this because the first summon had only 1 elemental djinni.

Calculate like this: base_elemental_power + bonus, instead of current power + bonus... The message about how much it has increased will give you new_current_power - old_current_power, anyway..

Notes:
-In order to to increase your power, you must use a stronger summon. (Doesn't matter about how many summons you've used.)
-Using a weaker summon will not reduce nor increase your power.
-The best way to get your bonuses from summons is to use the ones with the most djinn (4+), since the bonus is not stackable. (The bonus is an override.)
-All Player Character element powers and resistances cap at 200.

[jjppof]

You are right, I didnt referenced the base value. Ill check this again.

[jjppof]

Update! (Sorry, I would have edited my post again, but someone (topic creator) already saw it. Don't blame me much, since I rarely double post, anyhow.)

If the same summon caster casts other type of summon but it is or has the same element of the before summon, the new power grant shall be:
+0 power - 1 djinn
+20 power - 2 djinns
+50 power - 3 djinns
+90 power - 4 djinns or more

I think this is wrong. I theorize you came up with this because the first summon had only 1 elemental djinni.

Calculate like this: base_elemental_power + bonus, instead of current power + bonus... The message about how much it has increased will give you new_current_power - old_current_power, anyway..

Notes:
-In order to to increase your power, you must use a stronger summon. (Doesn't matter about how many summons you've used.)
-Using a weaker summon will not reduce nor increase your power.
-The best way to get your bonuses from summons is to use the ones with the most djinn (4+), since the bonus is not stackable. (The bonus is an override.)
-All Player Character element powers and resistances cap at 200.

I've made some edits. Look at the first post.

[Teawater]

Okay.

    Ex. 3
     Turn 1) Cated Cybele > + 60 venus power
     Turn 2) Casted Ramses > no power buff
     Turn 3) Casted Judment > + 90 venus power
     Turn 4) Casted Charon > +0 venus power, +30 jupiter power

Nope...
It should be this:
    Ex. 3
Venus Pow: 50
     Turn 1) Casted Cybele ( 3) > + 60 venus power
Venus Pow: 110
     Turn 2) Casted Ramses (  2) > no power buff (You remain with the + 60 from using Cybele)
Venus Pow: 110
     Turn 3) Casted Judgement ( 4)> + 40 venus power (It would be +100, but 60 power is coming from Cybele.)
Venus Pow: 150
     Turn 4) Casted Charon (  8,  2)> +0 venus power, +30 jupiter power (@Venus: If you've already used a summon with 4+ djinn of the same element, you already have your max bonuses from Summons.... as you can see by Judgement on turn 3.)
Venus Pow: 150

I will verify this in game to be 100% sure, but I am very confident in this being correct.
;
The number of djinn used in a summon are stored in PCs RAM (Each PC has 4 bytes for these djinn numbers), and this is calculated to get the new power each time the Calculate_All_Stats function is called. It literally recalculates everything that's not permanently applied... (Level ups, Mints, Apples, Breads, Peanuts(?), etc. permanently apply an increase to the base stat, if I remember correctly.)

     Turn 1) Casted Cybele ( 3) > + 60 venus power Sets number of Venus djinn used from summons to 3, and uses the formula to add with the [base] stat.
     Turn 2) Casted Ramses (  2) > no power buff Does not alter Venus djinn used from summons because the number is smaller.
     Turn 3) Casted Judgement ( 4)> + 40 venus power (It would be +100, but 60 power is coming from Cybele.) Sets number of Venus djinn used from summons to 4, and uses the formula to add with the [base] stat. Remember that the message you see in-game will show you the difference of the new-stat versus the old stat instead of the difference between the new-stat and the base stat.
     Turn 4) Casted Charon (  8,  2)> +0 venus power, +30 jupiter power

Do note that set djinn are 5 elemental power and 5 elemental resist, and that equipped items can also give you elemental bonuses too, these are also included in the formula in Calculate_All_Stats function.


---- (Correcting other two examples.) ----
     Ex. 1
     Turn 1) Casted Venus > + 10 venus power
     Turn 2) Casted Haures >  + 50 venus power (instead of 60), + 30 mars power (normal, first mars cast)
     Turn 3) Casted Judgment > no power buff +40 Venus Power (100-current buff(60) = 40)

     Ex. 2
     Turn 1) Cated Venus > + 10 venus power
     Turn 2) Casted Venus > no power buff
     Turn 3) Casted Ramses > + 20 venus power
     Turn 4) Casted Charon > +0 +70 venus power, +30 jupiter power (100-current buff(30)=70)

I will verify these corrections soon, as well.


I recommend that you look at elemental stats like they are percentages. So I guess that's probably one reason to stop summon bonuses at +100?

[jjppof]

I think I'm understanding now...
The final buff that a summon can give is the max that it can reach, less whats already buffed. If its negative, then buff will be zero. Thats why weaker summons dont increase the buff.

[Today]

Today at 18:00:23

Teawater: By the way, I was wondering, did anyone else notice the ".gba" ROM in the Downloads section?

[Today]

Today at 16:54:26

JamietheFlameUser: Well, that particular Briggs fight was from a long time ago. I haven't been working on my current hack the past few days because of other stuff.

[Today]

Today at 16:40:10

Luna_blade: @Saturos: Your english exams?

[Today]

Today at 16:33:40

Teawater: Can't remember exactly what shae of yellow it was, so not sure it would be too close or not.

[Today]

Today at 16:30:58

Teawater: @KoP: Wouldn't Shiny Gold be for the Sol Clan?

[Today]

Today at 15:37:37

Salanewt: Oh wait, tag doesn't work down here. But yeah, how is your hack going Jamie?

[Today]

Today at 15:37:00

Salanewt: [me] considers giving him the Sol Blade...

[Today]

Today at 15:36:00

Salanewt: Oh my. To be honest though, I'd be more likely to give Briggs stuff from later regions; him being a pirate from another continent and all.

[Today]

Today at 09:36:58

JamietheFlameUser: How not to design boss fights: give human-type bosses stats and equipment on par for what the Editor says their level is and what equipment is available where they're from. You get stuff like an actually scaled to level 21 Briggs with a Great Sword, Silver Plate, Silver Helm, Vambrace, and Leather Boots. God, that was BS.

[Today]

Today at 09:09:49

Saturos: Wow first part of exam is ower (in english) tomorow speaking part.

[Today]

Today at 07:11:35

JamietheFlameUser: Eh, I didn't know the exact chance of Curse screwing you over. Still, that 6% chance to fail to act at all could screw you over when it matters most. The obvious solution, of course, is to stick that armour on a character who doesn't do anything but spam attack moves anyway.

[Today]

Today at 07:10:52

leaf: ...assuming I'm remembering the chance of curse taking effect correctly as 25%

[Today]

Today at 07:09:50

leaf: in fact, you get two turns the majority of the time (~56%), and only completely fail to act ~6%, the remainder of the time getting one action

[Today]

Today at 07:07:49

leaf: I like that stealth armor buff. it wouldn't make sense to do that with the clerics ring available, but if you remove that, it's actually an interesting item. On average, you get ~1.5 turns per round. it's potentially very strong, but carries risks

[Today]

Today at 07:04:59

leaf: lol

[Today]

Today at 06:39:21

JamietheFlameUser: Reading the Venus Psynergy topic and 'lol'ing at Role's reaction to a very simple spell idea I'd had (and still think is awesome), where rock explodes out of the ground from a single point in a focused, cone-shaped burst. Role read me the riot act about not combining elements again. lol.

[Today]

Today at 06:17:58

JamietheFlameUser: Well, one thing I came up with that was actually potentially cool is a modification to the Stealth Armour. I gave it +1 turns, under the assumption that the Cleric's Ring would be removed. You might get 2 actions that round, or 1 action, or maybe no actions at all! RNG at its finest.

[Today]

Today at 06:15:32

Knight of Purgatory: Nice orange text kain. Maybe it should be a shiny gold

[Today]

Today at 06:03:40

leaf: I concur. There isn't much I'd consider worth salvaging from dc in terms of work done, but reading the old threads can be quite amusing

[Today]

Today at 06:01:48

JamietheFlameUser: LOL I'm looking at the DCrisis Items/Equipment section. Role and I were both so immature about it (me especially) that it's hilarious in hindsight.

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